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Tap Out

29 Aug 2011 - Raiding
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And like a single domino, that falls while the rest stay vertical, we’re fed these empty fairy tales. Will you believe them?–Rise Against, Disparity By Design

The 24th of August, 2011, the day of Blood Red Moon’s final raid as a guild.

At some point or another we’ve all thought about what we would say when it was all said and done. When you sit down to put it in black and white the words escape you. A fighter taps out when he sees that his chances of victory have been wiped out. That if he continues, the only result would be catastrophic injury. Last Thursday, we tapped out.

Through this post I hope to provide what I’ve tried to do over the year and I half I spent blogging: a look from the inside.

What this isn’t

This isn’t a post where I’m going to detail the drastic changes in my life that have forced me out of the game. If anything raiding is easier to fit in my schedule these days.

There wasn’t any guild splitting drama, and there weren’t any bosses that cock-blocked us into raiding submission.

As I looked over our final raiding roster of 23, those that remained have either been in BRM for 2 or more years or are good friends/SO’s of those players. We’ve had a strong core for this entire expansion, starting with over 30 raiders from the first day of Cataclysm. The problem was that we could never keep above the churn, which leads me to what did actually happen.

(Apple) Turnover

Recruitment has been brutal in Cataclysm. Brutal with a giant bold capital B. The numerous threads, the trade chat posts, the endless hours going through recruitment forums and meta-recruitment sites was just enough to keep us going. About every 3 weeks we would run into some roster issues when attendance, scheduling, and recruitment all conspired for some extra abscenses.

I haven’t looked all the way back to January, but my estimate is that 75% of our recruits this expansion have been from other guilds doing what we just did: stopped raiding. Some of their raiders wanted to keep going so they looked for another guild to latch onto. We absorbed raiders from 3 other raiding guilds just on our server. Now, with BRM exiting the scene, only 2 alliance 25 man raiding guilds remain on Zul’jin.

Lacking Loyalty

Call it bad luck, call it my fault for possibly not integrating them better, but we had so many folks join for a week or two then bounce for what they deemed “a more progression-focused guild.”  I would listen to gripes about how many wipes it would take us to down a boss or how slow recruitment has been. Even though we were rolling in the top 250 US, from their point of view this was my fault.

I wasn’t trying hard enough, I wasn’t recruiting or trying to recruit new players. People always want to quickly “replace the bads” or “get more warlocks”, but if you’ve ever raid/guild led you know that it isn’t that easy. At some point you have to decide to value loyalty, even if it means accepting a slightly lower level of performance.

That decision turns the more “progression minded” players off.

Then on the other end of that (players that are loyal but below average performance-wise), are loyal to their own guilds and the ones, like my final 23, that will stick around until the lights are turned off.

Server transfers, faction changes, 10 man, 25 man, normal, and heroic. A multitude of choices to fit exactly what you want. If the guild you picked out isn’t fitting, bounce to the next one. You are no longer limited to your server (even faction) for your guild choice. That’s obviously a good thing from the applicant’s perspective, but for the average 25 man raiding guild it’s an impossible situation.

This isn’t even mentioning the fact that a raider can see the progression of every guild in the world at any time, as well as their recruitment needs. Look through the list until you find your class, apply.

Bottom line: If you don’t catch lightning in a bottle and shake out the boss kills, the churn will begin. You must quickly recover or your losses aren’t too crippling (i.e. no tanks), you can keep rolling, keep attracting recruits, and keep raiding.

We were never able to get back off the mat.

Heroic Mode

For those that got to do it, The Burning Crusade is often held in high regard. “It was hard” is usually the most common refrain. However, none of the Tier 4, 5 or 6 bosses (Sunwell aside) were any harder than the bosses that inhabit Tier 11 and 12.

Our guild, like many, sat in the middle ground where normal modes weren’t exactly a pushover. I look back on TBC fondly because it was the last time when finishing the instance meant finishing the instance.

The addition of heroic mode dealt a significant blow to our motivation. It wasn’t because the bosses were too hard, it just never sat well with me. Like some shellfish that wasn’t cooked all the way through, something just never felt right. From Ulduar on through Firelands the heroic modes felt like a nuisance. While Rhyolith felt like a boss that needed put in his place, Heroic Rhyolith felt like “hey asshole, I’ve already killed you once, just give me my loot.”

Those feelings were never expressed verbally or even consciously. I was never able to decide whether our relatively smooth normal mode clears were because normal modes were easy or that we were more motivated for the first time clear.

The two most demoralizing things for a raid?

1) Calling a raid

2) “We’re going to finish on normal mode”

Pre-heroic modes you finished your week on the last boss in your progression order. With heroic modes, you have to budget time and make sure that you bail on heroic mode with enough time to clear out your farm content. If dropping back to normal mode was tough on morale, not finishing your farm content is just throwing gasoline on the fire.

The Decision

In lieu of a raid Thursday the officers held a meeting to discuss the future of the guild. That previous week we were 16% short of a Heroic: Beth’tilac kill. The next week we slowly lost 3 DPS and 2 tanks, dropping our total active roster blow what will even fill a 25 man raid.

The task ahead was daunting, but for us this would be the 4th time we were met with a critical roster situation.

I laid the situation out bluntly and when the question was returned “Sov, how are you feeling about this?”, I had to be honest: my tank is simply empty. My raid leader fuel tank has been completely depleted. It ran out about 2 weeks into Firelands. All of a sudden the fire inside that burns, that keeps you going, that lights up and pumps the adrenaline as you’re logging in for the night was snuffed out.

At a time, things like recruitment decisions, guild financials, and bench swaps didn’t affect me. They were just part of the job. As I’ve written about before, many of a raid leader’s choices boil down to deciding who gets to have fun tonight. Which 5 (or 3, or 1) of the people that set aside time in their lives gets to not have any fun.

Twenty-four folks in the raid are then having fun. The raid leader gets to see the disappointed tells and sighs.

It’s part of being a raid leader, but it’s something I’m no longer interested in doing. If you asked me right now if I would ever raid lead again, the answer would be an emphatic no.

When people ask for advice when starting a raiding team, my answer of “don’t do it, just join one” is 100% sincere. Will I ever raid again? That’s a question I can’t answer right now. What I’ve learned about myself over the past 4.5 years is that I’m comfortable providing some positive motivation to my teammates while being a strong, consistent, and flexible player.

The way to make a successful raiding team is simple: find 10 of your closest IRL friends, make 2 of them tank, and go for it. Make a pact: if one you quits, you all quit.

Before I move into the conclusion of this post, I want to make  something absolutely clear: I am not bitter about what the game has become or it’s current state. There is no reason to begrudge those that still lead great guilds, still remain successful and complete challenges at their chosen pace. As games like this evolve in their later years, there will be casualties. I’m sad that we were one of those, but cannot be disappointed with our 6 year run as a guild.

Regrets

I regret that I didn’t get into the wow blogging/podcasting community until the end of Tier 10. There is so much I could have written about back in the day when the golden years of raiding were still rolling along. You never realize how good you have it, or how unique a situation you’re in. There will never be another time in MMOs like early MC and BWL, and that makes me a little sad.

I regret that I could never get my raiding teams over the hump and complete that final encounter. We left Sinestra, Heroic Lich King, Tribute to Insanity, No Light Yogg, Immortal, and the last 3 bosses of Sunwell up. Heroic Lich King in particular and that’s a title that I never wanted after 4.0. I didn’t deserve it and I stuck to my guns on that.

Though I love my guildmates dearly, I regret that I never got to raid on the horde side. I feel like I missed out and maybe before WoW finally goes by the wayside, my dream of playing an Orc Shaman seriously will be realized.

I regret all the times I had to call a raid or guilt someone into raiding so that we didn’t have to call a raid. Those rarely ever happened, but it always made me lose a little sleep at night.

What I don’t regret

I don’t regret the countless hours, days, and months I spent on my Shaman and Hunter (despite the many players that dubbed wow as a “waste of their life”). I learned a lot of things about myself, about being a leader, and about breaking down some really difficult logistical issues.

More importantly, I became best friends with people that, if not for WoW, we would have never met.

For 12 hours a week we would laugh, cry, and celebrate. Cracking jokes, sharing stories, and supporting each other through tough times. Those in-game interactions led to the legendary BRM gatherings that, if I had a time machine, I would go back to in a second. We are a family by anyone’s definition.

To everyone

Those that have read even one of my posts or listened to me on the podcast, I can’t thank you enough. Reading comments and tweets from everyone is so great and overwhelming to me.  Blizzcon will give me the opportunity to meet even more of the great folks I’ve come into contact with through this blog and the wow community.

Speaking of the WoW community. Can we agree that the abbreviation for heroic mode should be HM and not HC?

You always imagine that the end will come in a glorious moment of triumph. My guild lead predecessor handed me the reins after a kill of Heroic: Anub’arak. I will step aside at 2/7 in Heroic Firelands. My raiding career will start and end with the Firelord Ragnaros, and that’s as perfect as it can get for me.

  1. I literally read this post with my jaw agape and my hand covering my mouth, Borsk.

    I’m in shock. I think you worded this post beautifully and I think if you were striving for a certain emotional response that you certain got it out of me and plenty other people, I’m sure.

    I can’t think of anything to say that doesn’t sound trite or cliche, so I’ll just say that I hope you find something that you enjoy, whether that’s staying with WoW or trying another game and that I hope you find reasons to still post on here. I look forward to meeting you at BlizzCon and I hope that you continue to stay active in the community, in some form.

    Thanks for the read, Borsk. Good luck, sir.

    /salute

    Oestrus on 29 Aug 2011 at 10:17

  2. First time reader on your blog, just have to say that I completely empathize with everything you’ve said here. Heroics have always felt like an annoyance, not an “extra challenge” – rather, it felt like WoW decided that the community needed to be treated with kid gloves and really deserved the gold star of killing Ragnaros/Lich King/Nefarian, even though “The princess is in another castle!”

    Recruitment has been brutal, and the merging of 10s and 25s has only heightened this. We turned in the towel after three years of raiding about two months ago; we raid one night a week on 10 mans, and have been slowly clearing through Firelands at our own pace, and we’re happy enough with that.

    You just summed up so much about how I feel in this blog post, better than I think I could possibly write it. Thank you so much for this.

    Jadissa on 29 Aug 2011 at 10:20

  3. Borsk!!! We’ll get the fire back in you. Taking a break is not a bad thing. We’ll talk at BC a lot more on this to be sure….cause I have been there multiple times. :) And yeah….HM DAMMIT!!!!

    Q

    quori on 29 Aug 2011 at 10:27

  4. @Oestrus
    I think I’ll have some things to write about since I plan on sticking around the community and the game. I can’t say my raiding days are finished at this point, so we shall see!

    Thanks for reading, as always :)

    borsk on 29 Aug 2011 at 11:12

  5. @Jadissa
    Thanks for stopping by! The hard mode thing is one I’ve been struggling with, opinion wise, for awhile.

    borsk on 29 Aug 2011 at 11:17

  6. All of my own 10man excursions have been fun, especially when I’m familiar with everyone in the group, but I love the 25man format.

    It’s sad to see another group stop, but completely understandable. Good luck with your next step! I’m looking forward to reading/listening/seeing your work in the future.

    Joe Ego on 29 Aug 2011 at 12:19

  7. Being the guild lead predecessor that Borsk mentions, I can say without one iota of doubt that he is one of the finest, most dedicated guild/raid leaders to have ever played the game, and an incredible friend and person besides.
    I haven’t touched WoW in about a year and only now do I truly feel the loss associated with the end of my raiding career. In this post, Borsk has managed to capture the entire essence of the frustrations I experienced leading up to my retirement in an elegent and touching way that I was never able to do.
    Enjoy your retirement buddy, if anyone deserves it, its you; certainly more than I did.

    Darae on 29 Aug 2011 at 12:42

  8. Will you be sticking around on the Matticast? I’ve always enjoyed your input on there!

    Ipsith on 29 Aug 2011 at 13:04

  9. @Ipsith

    As long ad they have me, I’ll continue to provide my contributions. Hopefully we’ll be back soon!

    @Darae

    It means a lot, brother. I only ever tried to raise the bar of what you and Duthan set out before me.

    borsk on 29 Aug 2011 at 13:18

  10. I understand all of your feelings here 100%. Especially knowing that it’s extremely hard to give up something that you love dearly – even if it’s been a struggle. So hard.

    I wish you the best of luck whatever adventure you come across next. I have no doubt that you will land on your feet.

    Beruthiel on 29 Aug 2011 at 13:22

  11. I would have been there in a second if life situation permitted it. It *kills* me that this happened because of not enough people, and that I wasn’t there.

    I consider yall my 2nd family. I loved our half decade of hard work and satisfying victories together. Although it’s been years, I basically miss the team as much now as I did the day I had to unwillingly stop.

    Everybody stay the fuck in touch

    Bukov on 29 Aug 2011 at 13:28

  12. Whoa. Now who am I going to ask my shaman questions to when I think Lodur’s blowing smoke up….

    Good post; well said. Sums up a lot of problems many of us have faced and maybe not wanted to voice.

    Viktory on 29 Aug 2011 at 13:30

  13. Couldn’t agree more Borsked. Like you I somehow ended up as a raid leader and guild leader, and burnt out for pretty much the same reasons. Dealing with the stress of managing everyone’s fun time while you are doing a stressful part time job. Easily clearing out normal modes, then hitting a wall with hard modes. Endless roster management and recruiting, with no one ever satisfied. Frankly it’s amazing that anyone still leads a guild. And that’s all on 10 man, so it’s not unique 25 man raids.

    Now I linger around as regular member of a 10 main raid, and wait for SWTOR to come out. I worry that game will continue the easy/hard model where you need to go back to “annoying mode” after you defeat things once, but that seems to be the way we are going with MMOs. Personally, I would love to have challenges that are way beyond what my guild could achieve, because that adds mystery and adventure to the game world because of that fact. But I guess most people just want to see everything, and can’t handle the idea that some things will always be out of reach, even if that’s what makes raiding enjoyable in the first place.

    Wugan on 29 Aug 2011 at 14:04

  14. [...] I came across a post by Borsk where he talks about letting go of his raid team.  It’s a deep, heartfelt post [...]

    Monday Musings – 6/7 Heroic and Recruitment Still Sucks Edition « Falling Leaves and Wings on 29 Aug 2011 at 14:56

  15. Borsk, my shaman brother from Zul’jin. I know this meeting well. I lived it months ago with Unpossible. I really did go through a lot of the same steps and thoughts. I say this with no amount of propitiatus, you’ve always been a player and person I respect. From your love of hockey to the love of all things shaman. If you come back and want to push again,if not on ZJ, you’ll always have a spot on NZ. Also, I don’t know if you do the real ID thing, but you have my email, feel free to add me brother.

    Lodur on 29 Aug 2011 at 15:02

  16. Hope you stay with the community in one way or another. I always appreciate anything you say or write.

    Bworf on 29 Aug 2011 at 15:53

  17. I love, and will truly miss you, for all that you have given to my life for the last 4 1/2 years. Throughout our ups and downs, I think we’ve come to a point in our relationship where there is a lot of respect for each other.
    It has literally torn my heart apart watching the fall of BRM, and unfortunately I’m sure we all knew it would come sooner or later. BRM was not going to be around forever, I just don’t any of us were quite ready to let it go just yet. I am sure it was a difficult moment for you to make that choice.

    Much like the ending of Toy Story 3, this feels like the end of an era. I do not regret a single moment of my time with you, or this guild, and even though we might not be together 4+ hours a night, I hope our friendship will flourish outside of WoW.

    Look forward to discussing movies with you, since you’re my favourite movie pal, and hope to watch you at Blizzcon from my computer. See you next year at a gathering THAT YOU BETTER MAKE IT TO.

    Much love;
    Einah

    Einahpets on 29 Aug 2011 at 16:12

  18. Very well put. I thank you for everything.

    Babaghanoush on 29 Aug 2011 at 18:50

  19. [...] linked to Borsk’s post about the end of his guild’s raiding. A sad thing, to be sure. It’s never easy to throw in the towel and it’s often [...]

    Why I Hate Heroic Modes : Kurn's Corner on 29 Aug 2011 at 20:22

  20. “There will never be another time in MMOs like early MC and BWL, and that makes me a little sad.”

    The reason there won’t be is because those raids weren’t any good. A full 80% of our top-end raiders who switched over to WoW in 2004 came back within a year, because the raiding was terrible. AQ was somehow -worse-, and we got another influx then. It wasn’t until T6 and T8 that WoW actually became known as the MMO with the best raiding scene. Now, in T12, it blows everything completely out of the water, but it sure didn’t in Tier 1.

    It was called Molten Bore for a reason. If that’s what you want, look into Everquest private servers or even original Everquest itself (it’s still going), because that game did that style of raiding a lot better. For action-oriented raiding however, where each person counts and you aren’t some blob of 40-200 people, WoW is the standard.

    Arazu on 29 Aug 2011 at 23:01

  21. I don’t believe my point of that statement was to say those raids or instances were better content-wise. Obviously they had their problems and they evolved into the well-tuned and diverse masterpieces that Blizzard presents today.

    However, there isn’t quite any time like first getting with a new raid group, discovering raiding, and defeating the dragons in Blackwing Lair. Recapturing that isn’t the same as loading up the next version of normal/heroic Tier N.

    I can see EQ player’s leaving a game that isn’t nearly as polished as one it’s 7th year of existence. You hold a completely different point of view than someone like me who played that game casually or someone who never even touched it.

    Looking back it was completely ridiculous, but we didn’t know any better, and at the time it was the standard.

    And just to repeat, so we’re clear here, I do not begrudge what the game has become. I’m stating why it burned me out and why I’m moving on for now. To me, that’s better than simply complaining and forcing myself to continue playing a game I get no enjoyment out of.

    borsk on 29 Aug 2011 at 23:20

  22. You will always be regarded as one of the best players I personally have ever gotten to play with, And BRM will always be considered my E-Family. Untill we meet again.

    JKurbs!

    Vsn on 30 Aug 2011 at 04:53

  23. [...] I read a blog post from Borsk that literally took my breath away.  In it, he mentions that his guild, which had weathered many [...]

    Putting A Face On Goodbye | The Stories Of O on 30 Aug 2011 at 09:21

  24. I stumbled onto your blog through another blog, and I agree with you on heroic modes. Although I’m not a hard-core raider. I just wanted to say that you should totally explore playing Horde as you mentioned. I’m not saying it’s better than Alliance. I started out playing Horde-since that’s what my husband played-before I even knew what mmorpgs were, so I have a fondness for them, but after a while and getting to the end grind (I hate end game grinding!!), I began playing alliance on a different server. I guess it was like doing everything over again – new quest chains and starting zones and different zones to explore. So, if nothing else, try something new. Good luck!

    Leighabelle on 30 Aug 2011 at 23:02

  25. [...] stems in part from my post at Kurn’s Corner, which, in turn, was spawned after reading about Borsk and his raiding team.  Blessing of Frost – Episode 31 – 08/30/11 [1:27:44] Play Now | Play in Popup | [...]

    Episode 31 – On the Road to Hard Modes « Blessing of Frost on 31 Aug 2011 at 00:25

  26. My time in BRM has only been a year, but I love you guys to pieces and hope to continue talking and joking in guild chat on alts with you for a long time to come. This is a beautiful post from an intelligent and thoughtful leader, and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t kinda tear up a bit. I love you Borsk! I hope I didn’t contribute to many of no-fun parts of raid leading. :( What I commented on my facebook was based on what people were saying, and it was before I read this. I understand now though, and bear no one any ill will even though it breaks my heart. BRM has always been my gold standard as to what a guild should be, and it was high honor to be accepted into your ranks. /salute (and you can’t go orc! your T3 wouldn’t look half as good!)

    Thrawna on 31 Aug 2011 at 15:23

  27. I understand.

    My intention was to let everyone know about things sooner so that rumors wouldn’t lead to confusion. Irene made sure to screw that up, so it took longer.

    No worries, Thrawna, I know you were there putting in a solid effort every might…even if you couldn’t talk on vent. :P

    borsk on 31 Aug 2011 at 15:32

  28. My guild is at 5/7 normal-modes on 10-man, but only 3/7 normal-modes on 25-man. I’m amazed at this point that we’ve been able to recruit enough people to stick with us through our progression in Firelands as a 25-man guild. We have to supplement with 10′s (because 2 days of 25-man raiding isn’t enough for us to progress without per-learning some of the bosses on 10′s, but that also means we have to learn every boss twice). Every day I wake up and worry about trying to stay afloat in terms of recruitment and keeping people happy.

    lissanna on 31 Aug 2011 at 19:35

  29. This, more than anything, was a fantastically written post. The emotions you conveyed in words are the same emotions I’ve felt over time. Especially once Firelands went live. This is also my first post of yours and I’m saddened by this. I hope the game is still a point of entertainment for you and wish you the best.

    Hestiah on 1 Sep 2011 at 04:01

  30. [...] back to business around here. I see Borsk has called it a career from being a GM. Respect the guy and his decisions. No plans to fire him from the Matticast just yet. I need [...]

    Back from PAX | World of Matticus on 1 Sep 2011 at 17:21

  31. [...] back to business around here. I see Borsk has called it a career from being a GM. Respect the guy and his decisions. No plans to fire him from the Matticast just yet. I need [...]

    Back from PAX | Game Ninja on 1 Sep 2011 at 20:00

  32. [...] back to business around here. I see Borsk has called it a career from being a GM. Respect the guy and his decisions. No plans to fire him from the Matticast just yet. I need [...]

    Back from PAX | World of Warcraft Observer on 1 Sep 2011 at 22:03

  33. [...] Some Thoughts on the Game September 1, 2011 by Matticus Good friend and fellow Matticast host Borsk has called it a career. Whether or not he’ll Brett Favre his way back in after another WoW expansion, who knows? After [...]

    Just Some Thoughts on the Game | World of Matticus on 2 Sep 2011 at 17:25

  34. [...] friend and fellow Matticast host Borsk has called it a career. Whether or not he’ll Brett Favre his way back in after another WoW expansion, who knows? After [...]

    Just Some Thoughts on the Game | Game Ninja on 2 Sep 2011 at 20:02

  35. [...] friend and fellow Matticast host Borsk has called it a career. Whether or not he’ll Brett Favre his way back in after another WoW expansion, who knows? After [...]

    Just Some Thoughts on the Game | World of Warcraft Observer on 2 Sep 2011 at 22:03

  36. [...] in the towel. Klepsacovic notes simply that he doesn’t feel like the target audience any more, Borsk describes his raid groups’ last raid and why they made the decision to stop, The Grumpy Elf hopes he can hang on for the next swathe of [...]

    [News and Links] September in the Rain « Welcome to Spinksville! on 3 Sep 2011 at 10:38

  37. Hardmode is definitely “HM” not “HC”. “HC” is “hardcore” and unless you delete your character and start a new one from level 1 when you die, you’re not playing hardcore. :-)

    Carson on 3 Sep 2011 at 17:59

  38. “I had to be honest: my tank is simply empty. My raid leader fuel tank has been completely depleted. It ran out about 2 weeks into Firelands. All of a sudden the fire inside that burns, that keeps you going, that lights up and pumps the adrenaline as you’re logging in for the night was snuffed out.”

    Pretty sure THAT is why you lost people and have been having problems recently, more than anything else. If a raid leader does not want to raid, it shows. Raiders with any experience will generally RUN from those leaders ASAP.

    You mention that you are in a top 250 guild. Players that are competent enough to consider joining those guilds, are generally competent enough to recognize burnout in a leader.

    Ted Beezy on 4 Sep 2011 at 03:43

  39. I’ve never denied that, and most of the conclusions I came to in this post and in the mentioned officer meeting were because of that. I was noticing it in myself and in others.

    People want to try and point out things that I’ve written as if I’m blaming something or someone else. What happened happened, and I’m not ashamed, surprised, or bitter that after 4 years of raid leading I didn’t have it anymore.

    It wasn’t fair to the players I was leading or to myself if it was never going to turn around. And I admitted as such numerous times.

    To be clear, or the third time now, I never didn’t want to log on, or progress, or wipe. I was tired of recruiting people, deciding who gets in and out, who gets what loot, and all those things. And unlike many others that play this game, I decided to step aside when I saw it was going bad and I didn’t want the guild to deteriorate into something I hated.

    borsk on 4 Sep 2011 at 14:43

  40. You don’t know me but /hug.

    Good luck in your future and try to remember the good times of which I have no doubt you have had many.

    Ongus on 30 Sep 2011 at 14:16

  41. [...] my post closing the doors on Blood Red Moon’s raiding days, I sat for about a week contemplating what to do. Sell my [...]

    Borsked » Fresh Starts and Free Time on 5 Oct 2011 at 18:51

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